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YouTube News 150+ Copyright Claims Against YT Creator Covering Anime

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MattCommand1

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But I participate in another forum where I speak directly with copyright lawyers about such issues all the time. The TL.DR version is, there is no such thing as "Fair Use".

Just a clarification, when I refer to "Fair Use", I am referring to the legal doctrine that exists within U.S. Copyright Law. It is very clearly discussed at length for anyone wanting to read it. I am NOT referring to "fair use" as it relates to being "fair vs. unfair". Fair Use is very much a real legal doctrine recognized in the U.S. and many other countries.


I quote from the U.S. Copyright Office website:

Fair use is a legal doctrine that promotes freedom of expression by permitting the unlicensed use of copyright-protected works in certain circumstances. Section 107 of the Copyright Act provides the statutory framework for determining whether something is a fair use and identifies certain types of usesΓÇösuch as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and researchΓÇöas examples of activities that may qualify as fair use. Section 107 calls for consideration of the following four factors in evaluating a question of fair use:
  1. Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair. This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, ΓÇ£transformativeΓÇ¥ uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work.
  2. Nature of the copyrighted work: This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyrightΓÇÖs purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair.
  3. Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole: Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used. If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely. That said, some courts have found use of an entire work to be fair under certain circumstances. And in other contexts, using even a small amount of a copyrighted work was determined not to be fair because the selection was an important partΓÇöor the ΓÇ£heartΓÇ¥ΓÇöof the work.
  4. Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright ownerΓÇÖs original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread.
In addition to the above, other factors may also be considered by a court in weighing a fair use question, depending upon the circumstances. Courts evaluate fair use claims on a case-bycase basis, and the outcome of any given case depends on a fact-specific inquiry. This means that there is no formula to ensure that a predetermined percentage or amount of a workΓÇöor specific number of words, lines, pages, copiesΓÇömay be used without permission.

YouTube, as a private company, can and will eliminate ANY content (Original or Fair Use) based on their guidelines. Also, YouTube, in their public letter, recognizes Fair Use which is why they stepped in to intervene with "Totally Not Mark" and made a public statement about it.

Google/YouTube has an entire support page discussing their interpretation of the Fair Use legal doctrine for anyone that is curious.


The pros & cons, the risk vs. reward, and the myriad issues the go along with employing Fair Use generally falls upon the user (non-owner). I don't really care whether anyone does or does not employ Fair Use legal doctrine. I don't have a dog in the fight. It is like Public Domain material. Use it or don't use it, it is up to the user/creator. It is their right/risk to take.
 
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The Jungle Explorer

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Yes, we all know about this. The problem is, it is not worth the ink it takes to print it, and that comes straight from a copyright lawyer's mouth. The whole thing is an exercise in subjective ambiguity. All it really says is, "You can never be 100% certain about what is and is not "Fair Use" and it will always boil down to the judge's discretion to determine whether what the defendant did falls under fair use. There is no wording there that you can take to the bank and deposit.

At the end of the day, anyone can sue you for any reason, and ambiguous subjective language like what that document contains is just a problem waiting to happen. There is nothing that is 100% safe when it comes to copyrighted material, other than the original unique content you personally create.
 
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MattCommand1

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Yes, we all know about this.

No, "WE" all don't know about this. That is why people ask about "fair use" all the time. People want to know about it. "Fair Use" is highly debated AND is used frequently whether you approve or not. That is a fact.

Also, you have made your position abundantly clear. Please don't try to jam it down everyone's throat or make it wrong if someone chooses to use it.

Everyone is entitled to share their opinion on the matter but your forceful phrasing is seemingly trying to shut down other opinions or lines of thought. I object to this.

As far as I can tell, "Fair Use" is an acceptable topic of civil discussion here on the TB Forums. As I said before EVERYONE has the right to choose to exercise "Fair Use" (with all its risks and rewards).

Does TB consider "fair use" to be a topic analogous to "sub4sub" or "buying subs" where it has to be entirely shut down? Because I sense hostility towards this topic.

I posted the initial story and resolution as a real-life case study of the extreme "pros and cons of the fair use" that community members can learn from. It also reveals YouTube's public position and how it defended a Youtuber over the matter. There were no lawsuits filed here but the creator did suffer a TON of emotional stress and damage.

But if my sharing these news stories is somehow a "bad thing" because "fair use" is a hostile topic, then fine. I found and followed the story by myself. I could have kept the lessons to myself but I chose to be a contributor and share it.
 
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The Jungle Explorer

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I started off by saying that I was not a lawyer.
It seems to me Matt, that the only person using "Forceful Language" is you. You say that everyone has the right to have an opinion, but it seems to me that you think that does not apply to me, because every time I say anything, you get your tail feather all in a bundle and go on emotional rants like this.

I stand by what I said because I have had lengthy discussions with actual copyright lawyers about this. I am not saying you cannot talk about it and that everyone else cannot share an opinion. You imposed all of that on me, I did not say it.

Matt, every time you and I interact, it turns out this way. You seem to think you are the authority on everything. You are not. Neither am I. I am not a 14-year-old tweeny with a YT channel. I am a grandfather that has lived a very abundant life, lived on multiple continents, speaks four languages and a few dialects that has sat down to dine with governors, congressmen, and a whole host another high official who were seeking my advice on national issues. If I have an opinion on something, it is always going to be a STRONG one, based on my own personal vast life experience. If you can't handle me making strong arguments that do not agree with yours, simply do not argue with me. Me and Damon do not always agree, but he is a mature adult and does not get all bent out of shape about it and he and I have a very respectful forum relationship. He has earned my respect by being able to disagree and not take it personally.

Okay. Problem solved.
 
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Damon

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You boys stop fighting. Am I going to have to separate you two?!? Is that what you want? Do you want to be separated?:no_mouth::mask:

In all seriousness, I agree with @Jungle Explorer's argument. Justice is tricky at bet. Your safest bet is 100% original content.
 
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The Jungle Explorer

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You boys stop fighting. Am I going to have to separate you two?!? Is that what you want? Do you want to be separated?:no_mouth::mask:

In all seriousness, I agree with @Jungle Explorer's argument. Justice is tricky at best. Your safest best is 100% original content.

No problem. Matt just does not understand me yet. I remember you and I having a few tussles way back in the beginning too. One of the reasons I have a lot of respect for you is because you were able to have those and not let it upset you and you did not take it personally. A rare quality these days, I assure you.
 
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MattCommand1

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The singular biggest problem which caused my pointed response is when people make statements of fact, when it is, in fact, an opinion.

There is no such thing as "Fair Use"

That was and is FACTUALLY UNTRUE I don't care what "lawyers" anyone consulted. I too can make "forceful" arguments and that is why I went to the Copyright.gov and quoted it directly here to put that to bed once and for all. There are many legal websites that debate, report, discuss, advise on "Fair Use" as a legal doctrine. That is FACTUAL, not an opinion.

The 2nd thing that irks me is I took the time to time to post the original story and the favorable resolution for the original creator who went through this angst of which YT had an ACTIVE role in the resolution WITHOUT any need for lawsuits. I thought it was an excellent case study that is happening NOW.

I do a post and write-up thinking it might spark some interesting debate but it seemingly devolves into a "hostile topic" and OUTRIGHT MISSTATEMENT of fact and outright DISMISSAL of the concept or a tool that is WIDELY USED to great success by many YTubers and media companies throughout the U.S.. Example: "Legal Eagle" is a lawyer with a huge channel who openly and actively practices FAIR USE in his videos. He offers a course in it and gives a speech about at VidSummit. The whole precept of Fair Use is one of fascination and interest and questions of how does one employ it appropriately. But if the best response is "there is no such thing, it isn't worth the paper it is written on" All I can say is, wow. That is the takeaway.

I have no issue with anyone choosing NOT to employ the fair use legal doctrine for a variety of valid reasons. I already wrote this a few times. But people should not be trying to make opinions into fact.

I used to run a very busy forum on copyright matters for over a decade and I did work with a lawyer on this forum. But I didn't feel the need to pull out my resume to open a discussion on Fair Use. However, in light of this thread, I am done discussing Fair Use on the TB Forums. I consider it a hostile topic which is fine. I am not uninformed, neither are the scores of lawyers, major news media, etc. that employ it every day. I know who and where to go to get the info I need.

In regards to me acting like an "authority about everything", that is because when I do respond, I respond to those areas I have direct experience or an informed opinion. And some of the topics that come up are quite frankly somewhat "low-level". I don't see a whole lot of people lining up to answer people's questions doing it for free. As far as I can see, only one guy (maybe two) is getting paid to publicly engage this forum. The rest of the activity here are volunteer contributors.

I stay silent in areas when I do not have expertise, experience, or interest. In any forum, there are lots more lurkers than contributors. If everyone lurked, there would be no forum. So I do my part where I can. There are an overwhelming number of beginners here and I hope that there will be more experienced Youtubers than there are now.

IN terms of my "emotional rants", it is personal because it is my valuable time when I try to post something constructive, interesting, and very relevant but some want to write things that are FACTUALLY UNTRUE. I don't like my time being wasted.

In regards to making strong arguments, I am perfectly capable of debating the merits of what I write but why would I waste my time doing so? I get nothing out of it and neither does a hostile audience. Also, believe or not, I exercise a great deal of restraint because we are in someone else's house: TubeBuddy's.
 
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MattCommand1

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In all seriousness, I agree with @Jungle Explorer's argument. Justice is tricky at bet. Your safest bet is 100% original content.

I consider this a factual and responsible statement and I have no issues with the choice you are making for yourself and your channel because there are valid reasons for this position. (Not that you needed my approval or permission, obviously.)
 
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The Jungle Explorer

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" believe or not, I exercise a great deal of restraint"

If this is you execising "Restraint" I would hate to see you let go. :p

You said nothing in your small book to counter anything I said. You actually, inadvertently supported what I said, you just can't see it because your emotions are clouding your judgment. You are not reading what I am writing, you are just responding emotionally because you feel threatened and are lashing out.

Fair Use is a concept that at best as clear as the muddy Misssippi River. That is WHY there are so many questions and confusion about it. No matter how much you talk about it will never get any clearer because it is designed to be subjective. Does it exist as a CONCEPT? Yes! But as a PRACTICAL matter is not a clearly decisive RIGHT. This is why there are so many lawyers and millions of court cases. At best it is a minefield that even with the most careful navigation, one can still get blown up.

All I am saying is that every single YouTuber that chooses to risk the minefield of claiming Fair Use in using other peoples content is at risk. The channel you talked about is proof of this. YouTube may be an American company, but it is GLOBAL platform. This means that anything that is written on Copyright.gov is limited to only one country out of the hundreds in the world. What the US decides does not extend to the rest of the world.

Maybe you are right that there is some degree Fair Use in the US to a limited extent. However, YouTube is a GLOBAL platform, and US law only extends to the US. So as a global concept, Fair Use, does not exist in any form that is reasonably understandable.

You are free to continue to disagree with me and write more books.
 
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MattCommand1

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What I am free to do is be selective of what I post and respond to. This thread is functionally dead and was clearly a misplaced and misguided idea. And any "books" I write is of my discretion and people can make their own determination of how to proceed.

And I do not feel threatened. You have not threatened any violence or any sort of thing. Once again, firing off something factually untrue.

What I find very disappointing is how hard some people fight for their limitations, cynicism, and the dark side in the name of "realism". I find that distasteful to the very fabric and tenor of this forum.

I read almost every post that comes through here and I do my best to respond in a manner that encourages and fosters a good spirit. But some, on the other hand, are determined the see the problem and worst case scenario in everything. I guess haters will hate and cynics are determined to see the worst in everything and everyone. Let's all hate YT, hate its policies, hate the recent changes, hate YT shorts, hate TubeBuddy thumbnails, hate TubeBuddy prices, hate Fair Use, hate the evolution of YT, hate what the algorithm is doing to our channels, etc.

What else am I missing to hate and to criticize around here? Because I would hate to miss the opportunity to go look for something to criticize and denigrate.

Do we want to once again talk about how TB Legend is overpriced and not worth it? Or how TB is lying to its customers with their YT thunbnails? Or how click-baiting thumbnails are immoral, unethical, etc.? Do we want to revive talking about how the algorithm is plotting against our channels? Do we want to post photos of butchered deer meat? How about another lesson on constitutional rights?

Because those are such inspiring and empowering topics to talk about and everyone is dying to read.

I find it hard to believe this is what the TB Forums are all about: trying to find every imperfection, flaw, downsides, and criticism of YouTube and TubeBuddy products. Let's find every problem we can think of and the absolute worst case scenario in every feature and issue because that is the way the "real world" works, right?

Because that is such a wonderful strategy for the TB Forums to encourage more successful YouTubers here to share their insights with this kind of mindset.
 
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MattCommand1

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And given that this thread is off the rails anyway, I want to make clear what I think the TB Forums is about. I have no contacts with anyone at TB except for Stanley. I never met the guy and never spoken to the guy but I think he is a heck of a smart guy. I LOVE all the stuff he writes. I have learned a lot from Damon too. Our styles are very different and we are different people but damn, he brought to light things and by example in his videos that expanded my mind and realm of possibility. I got the book he recommended. I love it all getting new insights. I also love seeing the huge variety of channels that come through here. It is mind-boggling.

TB makes a product for Youtubers. It is an impressive product. I have no problems recommending it. It is one I was skeptical of but after 1-month trial, I liked it. I liked it enough to pay for a great deal of annual subscription upfront. In a sense, the TB Forums did help convert me from observer to being a customer. I like that there was a place to talk about the product and YT, in general.

I peeked into the forums and found a lot of good info and insights from the moderators and other contributors. I saw a lot of beginners coming through here and bringing up topics that seemed easy enough to answer given the fact I have produced several hundred videos across the years scattered across multiple YT channels.

Instead of continuing to be a lurker, I dipped my toes into a contributor. In other words, I started trying to give back, not keep lurking quietly. I did it with few expectations using my valuable time. No one twisted my arm.

Sometimes I am verbose but from an SEO point of view, it is great for the TB Forums. Good natural organic content. Everything we write as contributors in the forum feeds the TB SEO. I know this because I ran a very busy forum for many years. People who contribute to the forums are generally a good thing.

But at the core of this is the TB Forums is being hosted and paid for by TB including at least one moderator. It is potentially a great resource but it is based on "the community" consisting of a variety of members. I know what that feels like even though I have no ownership or business interested in TB except for being a customer. I hate all the spam that comes through here. I quietly police them voluntarily and it seems to be appreciated.

Everyone is a beginner and I wish I had more help with YT 10 years ago but there was no such resource as this. VidIQ is a competitor of TB but they don't have a forum available like this.

When the TB Forums were started however many years ago, I believe that they intended the TB Forums to support both their product and YT in general. From what I can tell, they encourage community talk. I don't believe they try to force a particular dialog on anyone. What is generally good for YT is generally good for TB and vice versa.

When any of us come here, none of us have to agree on everything but I believe there is an unspoken understanding that we are supportive of both YT and TB. I am not talking about us being blind, cult members where we cannot express our disappointments or provide constructive criticisms. But I think it is disrespectful to tear into YT or TB here. If that is what some are inclined to do, I believe they can find somewhere else to go.

TB and its forum users should not have to endure users who are here to dismantle, insult, undermine, and denigrate either TB or YT. That is why I say these forums are private. None of us have 1st Amendment rights. We should mind our manners. Don't be cynical or a pessimist. For aspiring Youtubeers, "doom and gloom" is not what they are looking for. They are looking for inspiration and some well-grounded info, suggestions, or guidance.

Even more established Youtubers are looking to improve their performance. People are not looking for "doom and gloom" and the flaws and worst-case scenarios in every single thing or feature. They are looking for solutions, workarounds, fixes, techniques, strategies, etc.

I have done my part to bring up different topics, news items, etc. to stimulate interesting discussions. Some have worked, others like this thread have not. The original point of this thread is all but gone now and this editorial I am writing seems to be the most appropriate place and context of making my points.

The TB Forums, as I see it, is to grow, support YT and the TB product. We all get to benefit with shared knowledge and exchange of ideas. But let's be clear, it is a goodwill project that costs real money to TB to maintain. I am not oblivious to this but I think some people don't quite get this.

The passion I express here is to get people to understand why this forum exists. In my view, some of the criticisms of TB product & YT have been reckless and downright cynical. It is entirely bizarre to me that some topics have become hostile topics when they are clearly a part of the fabric of media, Google, Youtube, etc.

But I cannot sit idly by while certain personalities try to run people over / side-swipe people with their judgmental rhetoric and innuendoes about how "logical" they are, having such "high standards", having "high morals and ethics" and other such loaded statements. The implication is the "rest of us" are NOT logical, do not have high standards, and have no morals or ethics.

Enough is enough.
 
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Nothin' But Gadgets

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Someone needs to hear this.

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Shoeboy

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That's right. go to studio to do my own sound track. though one of my video is a victim.
 
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Fair use, creative commons, public domain, etc it's all a sketchy topic. The movies do it all of the time but since the movies are their own platform in a sense no one controls what they do. No one here can really afford to sue YouTube or someone who claims false copyright. I get hit a few times a year from people in other countries who claim I use their content (I don't) others don't pay attention to what they're claiming. I've had unrelated claims by Sony, Warner Brothers, and some music company I can't think of who because it was based on the name of my video. They thought I copied them because of a name! What did it do? It ruined MY discovery window. Didn't affect them at all. So annoying.

Some of us don't just stand in front of a video and talk, we create things that require other resources besides a camera. I could go on and on about people who put trademarks in their videos that probably shouldn't. Movies and companies pay good money to have their product shown on a movie. So if you're showing your computer logo, phone logo, or anything of that sort, even that can get a video canned. That's why in some movies you see the put a piece of paper or sticker over the Dell or Apple logo on the back of a laptop or the box of milk is facing the wrong direction. They can't.
 
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The Jungle Explorer

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Fair use, creative commons, public domain, etc it's all a sketchy topic. The movies do it all of the time but since the movies are their own platform in a sense no one controls what they do. No one here can really afford to sue YouTube or someone who claims false copyright. I get hit a few times a year from people in other countries who claim I use their content (I don't) others don't pay attention to what they're claiming. I've had unrelated claims by Sony, Warner Brothers, and some music company I can't think of who because it was based on the name of my video. They thought I copied them because of a name! What did it do? It ruined MY discovery window. Didn't affect them at all. So annoying.

Some of us don't just stand in front of a video and talk, we create things that require other resources besides a camera. I could go on and on about people who put trademarks in their videos that probably shouldn't. Movies and companies pay good money to have their product shown on a movie. So if you're showing your computer logo, phone logo, or anything of that sort, even that can get a video canned. That's why in some movies you see the put a piece of paper or sticker over the Dell or Apple logo on the back of a laptop or the box of milk is facing the wrong direction. They can't.

All very true. The issue is super complex, and this is the way they want it to be. It's like the YT community standards which are written intentionally vague and ambiguous. The less clarity the user has, the more power of interpretation the authority has. If they were to come out with some simple hard and fast clear guidelines for use of copyrighted content, it would take away the authority's ability to have flexibility in interpretation. Million of lawyers would lose their careers. We can't have that, now can we? :p

JOKE TIME.
What do you have when you have a lawyer buried up to his chin in concert? ........... A lack of 10 inches of concrete! :joy:
 
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Tito Tim

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That's why in some movies you see the put a piece of paper or sticker over the Dell or Apple logo on the back of a laptop or the box of milk is facing the wrong direction. They can't.
I watch a lot of Korean shows (that is about all Netflix has over here) and I see this all the time! T-shirts, art on the wall, product packaging... all pixelated out. They must have some serious copyright concerns over there, or just do not want to advertise for free?
 
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