Answered Sub4sub is wrong?Why?

[Nevadacool]

I'm kind of Loft at why there be a community of people interested in YouTube and not interested in being able to monetize their Channel and definitely not being able to use a platform in order to accomplish that that doesn't make a lot of sense to me can someone explain

 

[Shelly Saves the Day]

Trying to increase your engagement or metrics artificially is a violation of YouTube's Terms of Service.

By YouTube's own definition:

If you're posting content
DonΓÇÖt post content on YouTube if it fits any of the descriptions noted below.

• Links to or promotes third-party services that artificially inflate metrics like views, likes, and subscribers
• Content linking to or promoting third-party view count or subscriber gaming websites or services
• Offering to subscribe to another creatorΓÇÖs channel only if they subscribe to your channel (ΓÇ£sub4subΓÇ¥)
  • Note: You're allowed to encourage viewers to subscribe, hit the like button, share, or leave a comment
• Content featuring a creator purchasing their views from a third party with the intent of promoting the service

This policy applies to videos, video descriptions, comments, live streams, and any other YouTube product or feature. Keep in mind that this isn't a complete list.

YouTube doesnΓÇÖt allow anything that artificially increases the number of views, likes, comments, or other metrics either by using automatic systems or serving up videos to unsuspecting viewers. Also, content that solely exists to incentivize viewers for engagement (views, likes, comments, etc) is prohibited.

Content and channels that don't follow this policy may be terminated and removed from YouTube.

Important: If you hire someone to promote your channel, their decisions may impact your channel. Any method that violates our policies may result in content removal or a channel takedown, whether it's an action taken by you or someone you've hired.

Long story short, it's against TOS and can get your channel taken down. Don't do it.

 

[Tito Tim]

Sub4sub is not going to help you get any views or build any type of community. A subscriber that does not watch your videos is useless. Why would anyone want to collect them?

 

[Nevadacool]

Well there's two parts the first is that you need a thousand subscribers the second part is that you need for thousand views so you may have four thousand views but no subscribers The so therefore what you're saying make sense in the reverse

 

[Nevadacool]

Odd don't you think?

 

[Nevadacool]

They give you a quota, and tell you how to reach it.

 

[Tito Tim]

Well there's two parts the first is that you need a thousand subscribers the second part is that you need for thousand views so you may have four thousand views but no subscribers The so therefore what you're saying make sense in the reverse

Organic views are real, and good for the growth of your channel. Same with organic subs. Trying to game the system to trick your numbers higher is not going to help you in the long run. A non-viewing sub serves no purpose.

I do not find rules against gaming the system odd at all.

I met another local vlogger at a festival a couple years ago. She does sub4sub live video drives. She now has almost 10,000 subs - and gets an average of 30 views per video. What good are those subs doing her? I have never done any sub4sub. I only have 4,000 subs - but get an average of 500 views per video.

I much prefer my real numbers over her artificial numbers.

 

[Fleurdwi Cooking]

sub4sub gives you a bad statistic in:

subscribers watching your videos
this in turn tells YouTube, that your subscribers are not interested. promoting your video's less! (low CTR rate amongst subscribers, turns in to lesser promotions from youtube which turns into lesser views and less new subscribers. you will be in a cirkle of turning everything in to less CTR -> views -> Real Subscribers

 

[Nevadacool]

Organic views are real, and good for the growth of your channel. Same with organic subs. Trying to game the system to trick your numbers higher is not going to help you in the long run. A non-viewing sub serves no purpose.

I do not find rules against gaming the system odd at all.

I met another local vlogger at a festival a couple years ago. She does sub4sub live video drives. She now has almost 10,000 subs - and gets an average of 30 views per video. What good are those subs doing her? I have never done any sub4sub. I only have 4,000 subs - but get an average of 500 views per video.

I much prefer my real numbers over her artificial numbers.

Sure, it would be great if you could drive traffic to your videos by good old fashion search, but the reality is, organic searches produce the same predictable results. How often have you seen the same video pop up when you perform a search. There Re millions of videos on ever search term. The little YouTube never gets recognized. And over 75 percent of the channels out there you have probably never seen, and you won't, because that is the algorithm.
The game is played on both sides, you are not evenly matched in this chess game my friend...why would you be ruled by a glutton?

When the playing field is even, surely, I will gladly play my part, because you do need an audience that wants to see your content, or all this is pointless.

 

[Avocado]

From what I read, if youtube finds out you do sub4sub, they will close your account...

 

[CyberSorcerer]

@Nevadacool well from what I see yesterday you have 12 subs which are a little above your average over the past 30 days and then all of the sudden you have 151 subs "in one day" today and the stats is falling currently at 63 and by tomorrow it will probably be back to your average around 10-15 a day. To Google's algorithm, this is a red flag because it's going to ask itself what happen? Then it's going to start watching those subscriptions. Do they engage with your videos, comment, or even watch your videos at all. You have to admit if you have 151 subs in one day and for the next 90 days NOT ONE of those subs clicked on a single video of your or watch more than 1 hour of video over those 90 days that's pretty odd. It's going to know you did "something" for those 151 subs because it wasn't normal and your stats show that. The algorithm doesn't know exactly what but it knows something is up because that's not normal.

And since YouTube knows ALL stats of EVERY single channel on the platform it doesn't have to guess what viewers normally do, or how true channel subs actually act when they sub a channel. How many hours over a month, 3 months, 6 months they watch video's from that channel and much much more stats that paint a picture, and a profile, of subs vs non-subs, etc.

Just tell you from my point of view because even though I don't have the experience that Google's algorithm does I am an internet marketing consultant and I have done my fair share of channel audits for both people and companies and have seen plenty of numbers from small channels to large ones. So even I know when something doesn't look like normal activity. It showing actions that do not fit the day-to-day activity that the channel normally has. So personally, however that 151 views "IN ONE DAY" happen, if it was my channel I can't say I would be very happy with how it happens because it's not going to do me much good. Actually, it's going to be more harmful than good in the long run.

Just in my opinion, you can take it for what it's worth.

 

[Nevadacool]

@Nevadacool well from what I see yesterday you have 12 subs which are a little above your average over the past 30 days and then all of the sudden you have 151 subs "in one day" today and the stats is falling currently at 63 and by tomorrow it will probably be back to your average around 10-15 a day. To Google's algorithm, this is a red flag because it's going to ask itself what happen? Then it's going to start watching those subscriptions. Do they engage with your videos, comment, or even watch your videos at all. You have to admit if you have 151 subs in one day and for the next 90 days NOT ONE of those subs clicked on a single video of your or watch more than 1 hour of video over those 90 days that's pretty odd. It's going to know you did "something" for those 151 subs because it wasn't normal and your stats show that. The algorithm doesn't know exactly what but it knows something is up because that's not normal.

And since YouTube knows ALL stats of EVERY single channel on the platform it doesn't have to guess what viewers normally do, or how true channel subs actually act when they sub a channel. How many hours over a month, 3 months, 6 months they watch video's from that channel and much much more stats that paint a picture, and a profile, of subs vs non-subs, etc.

Just tell you from my point of view because even though I don't have the experience that Google's algorithm does I am an internet marketing consultant and I have done my fair share of channel audits for both people and companies and have seen plenty of numbers from small channels to large ones. So even I know when something doesn't look like normal activity. It showing actions that do not fit the day-to-day activity that the channel normally has. So personally, however that 151 views "IN ONE DAY" happen, if it was my channel I can't say I would be very happy with how it happens because it's not going to do me much good. Actually, it's going to be more harmful than good in the long run.

Just in my opinion, you can take it for what it's worth.

I appreciate the input. When I pushed a bunch of links out to different media platforms I got an overwhelming response in a short period Of time. Ironically, I had a huge surge of subscribers, but suddenly, many disappeared, which I find odd. One or 2 subscribers unsubscribing is not strange, but 50 plus, well...that is.

Youtube is the #1 platform to share videos to help other people solve day to-day problems. However, I don't think it's right that I can post Content on YouTube, and they can attach, not one, but 2 videos to ever view, get paid from these ads, but I have to jump through ridiculous hoops to receive the crumbs.

Well, I could always say @#%% YouTube, I'm not posting, but we all know that it is the best place on the net to share, and locate information. The point is, I want to get paid for my content, and not through patron.

This has all become a huge time suck.

 

[Nevadacool]

From what I read, if youtube finds out you do sub4sub, they will close your account...

Well I wouldn't want that, so I will steer clear, thanks.

 

[Tito Tim]

I want to get paid for my content, and not through patron.

This has all become a huge time suck.

YouTube is a marathon, not sprint. If I was making vids just to 'get paid'... I would find a better way to get paid. Are you making videos because you want to make videos, or because you want to get paid? If you are not enjoying what you are doing, and passionate about it - it will show in your videos. Concentrate on making quality entertainment... the rest is just details.

 

[Nevadacool]

YouTube is a marathon, not sprint. If I was making vids just to 'get paid'... I would find a better way to get paid. Are you making videos because you want to make videos, or because you want to get paid? If you are not enjoying what you are doing, and passionate about it - it will show in your videos. Concentrate on making quality entertainment... the rest is just details.

Have you taken the time to look at how long I have been at this?

 

[Ater]

the second part is that you need for thousand views

It's not 4k views it's 4k hours watch time. That is a huge difference!

Also don't expect getting monetized to give more then a few dimes in the beginning. When I first got monetized I was only making a new bucks each month so it's really not worth trying to cheat your way their early instead focus on building a real community with passionate fans that want to watch every video you publish. I think everyone agrees that they rather be a channel with 4000 subscribers that get 1000 views a video than a channel with 100 000 subscribers that get 50 views a video.

If very few of your subscribers watch your videos it's probably not great for the algorithm, if the people who subscribe to you don't find your videos good enough to watch why would anyone else? The same may happen if you spam your content in the wrong places, you get a very low audience retention telling the YouTube algorithm that your content is bad (since everyone stops watching asap)

As a smaller channel your main focus should always be to create more quality content, set a goal like 100 new videos before new years and try to make each new video better than the previous one. Don't worry at all about subscribers they will come automatically as the channel grows with more and more quality content.

 

[Ater]

Since YouTube regulary removes subs from bots and other cheats I wouldn't be surprise if they also removed sub for subs on a regular basic.

 

[Tito Tim]

Have you taken the time to look at how long I have been at this?

Yes. 53 videos. 53 vids and almost 500 subs is pretty good. At 50 vids I had about 200 subs. Keep at it, and have fun.

 

[Stanley | Team TB]

The thing that kind of stands out to me here is the misunderstanding of some of these numbers. As mentioned by @Ater it is 4,000 hours... which is a totally different metric than 4,000 views. Do all the sub swapping you want; you'll never get them to watch more than a few seconds of a single video and those 30 views per vid are never going to get you to 4k hours. So that is one of the problems with sub for sub; it does not get you any closer to monetization.

It takes work... both in the research and time in filming and editing as well as the thumbnails, scripting and metadata research (and yes, that is important too... I'll get to why in a moment). But worrying about gaining 150 subs in a single day and then losing a few... that is pittance. 1,000 subs and 4,000 hours is pittance. It may take time... but honestly if you can only gain 100-150 subs in a single day once per month then you are focusing on the wrong thing. Even if they are quality subscribers... and judging by those drop-off numbers they aren't. But I don't think there is a single person here who isn't aiming for 10,000, 100,000 or 1 million subscribers. And this is just not the way to get there. You need to think big. You need to have a much more global view of how you plan to grow your channel. This is another reason sub 4 sub is nonsense. You just can't sub 4 sub your way to 1 million subscribers and even if you did they aren't going to watch ads and you are not going to get paid. A couple months ago I had to do a sit-down with a channel that had 2 million subscribers and could only get 60 views on a video... the result of heinous sub 4 sub and purchased subs. That is a dead channel, there is no coming back from that. That means that every time they put out a video YouTube shows out 200,000 impressions to that channels audience and they get a return of 60 views. Think about the red flag that this sends to YouTube. Every video they ever post is going to be DOA before it even gets out the gate, they will never get shared out.

You know what helps YouTube to push video impressions? Good video performance. This is where keyword research and ranking for search comes into play. If you make a solid video, and then you do your keyword research and fill out your metadata and this video ranks in search for this topic then you are putting your video directly in front of people who are specifically looking for that exact video. What better way to get positive video performance than by doing exactly this? The better your video performs the more it gets shared out and the more you get seen.

And this is how you get 100,000 or 1,000,000 subscribers. Quality content first and foremost... but get that seen over and over again in front of audiences who are looking for that content. It may take time... but once it hits and once YouTube really dials in on that audience there is no better way to get in front of a large mass of viewers. And as an added bonus until this surge of growth happens you can at least count on getting perennial, evergreen views from these search ranks across your entire library. Give those videos a chance to keep working for you. I guarantee the work put into doing so is inexplicably more valuable than wasting time asking some Johnny-Come-Lately to subscribe to your channel in return for your subscription.

 

[Nevadacool]

The thing that kind of stands out to me here is the misunderstanding of some of these numbers. As mentioned by @Ater it is 4,000 hours... which is a totally different metric than 4,000 views. Do all the sub swapping you want; you'll never get them to watch more than a few seconds of a single video and those 30 views per vid are never going to get you to 4k hours. So that is one of the problems with sub for sub; it does not get you any closer to monetization.

It takes work... both in the research and time in filming and editing as well as the thumbnails, scripting and metadata research (and yes, that is important too... I'll get to why in a moment). But worrying about gaining 150 subs in a single day and then losing a few... that is pittance. 1,000 subs and 4,000 hours is pittance. It may take time... but honestly if you can only gain 100-150 subs in a single day once per month then you are focusing on the wrong thing. Even if they are quality subscribers... and judging by those drop-off numbers they aren't. But I don't think there is a single person here who isn't aiming for 10,000, 100,000 or 1 million subscribers. And this is just not the way to get there. You need to think big. You need to have a much more global view of how you plan to grow your channel. This is another reason sub 4 sub is nonsense. You just can't sub 4 sub your way to 1 million subscribers and even if you did they aren't going to watch ads and you are not going to get paid. A couple months ago I had to do a sit-down with a channel that had 2 million subscribers and could only get 60 views on a video... the result of heinous sub 4 sub and purchased subs. That is a dead channel, there is no coming back from that. That means that every time they put out a video YouTube shows out 200,000 impressions to that channels audience and they get a return of 60 views. Think about the red flag that this sends to YouTube. Every video they ever post is going to be DOA before it even gets out the gate, they will never get shared out.

You know what helps YouTube to push video impressions? Good video performance. This is where keyword research and ranking for search comes into play. If you make a solid video, and then you do your keyword research and fill out your metadata and this video ranks in search for this topic then you are putting your video directly in front of people who are specifically looking for that exact video. What better way to get positive video performance than by doing exactly this? The better your video performs the more it gets shared out and the more you get seen.

And this is how you get 100,000 or 1,000,000 subscribers. Quality content first and foremost... but get that seen over and over again in front of audiences who are looking for that content. It may take time... but once it hits and once YouTube really dials in on that audience there is no better way to get in front of a large mass of viewers. And as an added bonus until this surge of growth happens you can at least count on getting perennial, evergreen views from these search ranks across your entire library. Give those videos a chance to keep working for you. I guarantee the work put into doing so is inexplicably more valuable than wasting time asking some Johnny-Come-Lately to subscribe to your channel in return for your subscription.

Well that was definitely an extensive reply however you made excellent points and I will follow your advice. Thanks again to everyone

 

[c0nefn]

Sub4sub is not going to help you get any views or build any type of community. A subscriber that does not watch your videos is useless. Why would anyone want to collect them?

those people who sub to you arent going to watch any of your vids, then youtube will think your vids are bad and wont reccomend it to people