TubeBuddy Organic subscribers

[Uk sea fishing]

Hi everyone what is going on with youtubes algorithms? I often get between 10 and 15 organic subscribers through my live streams and then youtube takes them away

 

[Stanley | Team TB]

There are two things happening here. For starters, YouTube runs your analytics through a verification process. You'll get the subscription and then they will occasionally take them away as they verify whether the subscription was valid or from a sub4sub account, bot etc. If valid you will get that subscription back in 24-48 hours.

A lot of times though these subscriptions come from bot accounts and these sub4sub channels, and when that is the case YouTube will flag or delete those accounts and pull their subscriptions.

 

[Uk sea fishing]

Thank you that explains a lot, although i personally dont use the sub4sub channels i know that my link has been shared to said channels

 

[Stanley | Team TB]

Thank you that explains a lot, although i personally dont use the sub4sub channels i know that my link has been shared to said channels

Oh yeah, it's not to say you are encouraging that. Livestreams naturally attract Sub4Sub scam channels. Once these channels get flagged as Sub4Sub then YouTube just starts pulling their subscriptions. YT doesn't hold that against you.

 

[Uk sea fishing]

Oh yeah, it's not to say you are encouraging that. Livestreams naturally attract Sub4Sub scam channels. Once these channels get flagged as Sub4Sub then YouTube just starts pulling their subscriptions. YT doesn't hold that against you.

Thanks for clearing that up ive always wondered why that was happening

 

[MattCommand1]

Livestreams naturally attract Sub4Sub scam channels. Once these channels get flagged as Sub4Sub then YouTube just starts pulling their subscriptions.

I never knew this. Can you elaborate as to WHY livestreams attract sub4sub channels?

 

[Stanley | Team TB]

I never knew this. Can you elaborate as to WHY livestreams attract sub4sub channels?

There is a large contingent of creators on YouTube... millions of people of varying skill levels all trying to 'grow' their channel. These people are typically very active and in-tune with YouTube events like livestreams, and it is not uncommon to meet a fellow creator in a livestream and you subscribe to each other because they are interesting or someone you want to work with in the future. Sadly, the sub4sub crowd sees interactions like that as an opportunity to grow their channel and they take advantage of the live audience as a means of trying to grow their subscriber count. A couple years ago you could go into a livestream chat and click on someone's name in the chat and go straight to their channel; the sub4sub scene got so prevalent that YouTube took that feature away. This was a stupid solution to a ridiculous problem... but it is reflexive of the shear quantity of people trying to game their system for channel growth.

 

[MattCommand1]

There is a large contingent of creators on YouTube... millions of people of varying skill levels all trying to 'grow' their channel. These people are typically very active and in-tune with YouTube events like livestreams, and it is not uncommon to meet a fellow creator in a livestream and you subscribe to each other because they are interesting or someone you want to work with in the future. Sadly, the sub4sub crowd sees interactions like that as an opportunity to grow their channel and they take advantage of the live audience as a means of trying to grow their subscriber count. A couple years ago you could go into a livestream chat and click on someone's name in the chat and go straight to their channel; the sub4sub scene got so prevalent that YouTube took that feature away. This was a stupid solution to a ridiculous problem... but it is reflexive of the shear quantity of people trying to game their system for channel growth.

Thank you for the explanation. What you are saying is kind of bizarre to me that this happens. I guess it is my naivete and ignorance here.

I typically watch livestream videos after the fact, not in real time. Most of the time, livestream schedule is not good for me. I am generally working or doing something. I also feel it is not time-efficient. Watching after the fact, I can move through a livestream much quicker by speeding the video up or skipping past sections you aren't interested in. But, of course, you do miss out on the live interactions and the possibility of creating new relationships. I may want to participate in someone's livestream just to see what it is like.

In regards to sub4sub concept, because of the business I am in, I am constantly bombarded by LinkedIn requests to connect. It is sort of "follow4follow" there. Normally, I am pretty receptive to creating relationships but LinkedIn has become a place where people are "collecting" followers and connections as a sales and marketing database. I don't like that.

I am constantly turning people down on LinkedIn for these "follow4follow". Why the heck would I accept a connection from someone I don't know and for them to spam me directly?

I am a pretty picky subscriber because I have limited bandwidth. So, there is no way I am going to haphazardly subscribe to channels or creators I have little or no interest in.

 

[Super Cooper Hobbies]

I don't think sub4sub is ever going to go away. For some reason, people still think its a good strategy, even though it actually sets them backwards.

I completely agree with you Matt on the livestream scheduling. I almost never attend, not cause I don't want to, but I can't. I live in India, and I don't most of the creators I watch don't so they're always streaming at like midnight for me.

 

[BraveStar]

I don't think sub4sub is ever going to go away. For some reason, people still think its a good strategy, even though it actually sets them backwards.

The reason for this, I believe, is because of the requirements to qualify for the YouTube Partner Program. Since the average content creator is looking to monetize their videos to make money from YouTube their goal is to first qualify for the YPP. That can only work if they get 1000 subs. What they fail to realize is that subs don't equal views and thus while they might get the 1000 subs through sub4sub, they can't get these 1000 people to watch their content to get them the 4000 watch hours also required to qualify for the YPP. After all, sub4sub is about simply getting people to sub regardless if they watch your content. But if they don't watch the content then it's pointless to have the subs. Not only will they not be able to get the 4000 hours of watch time if their subs don't watch but even if they did manage to get those hours 1000 subs is not enough to get enough views needed to get paid by YouTube. It just won't work. It will be all for not.

 

[MattCommand1]

Hi Brave Starr,

Honestly, I am worn out on the whole subscriber thing as it is often discussed on these forums. Obviously, I am here because the pros outweigh the cons. And the cool factor is higher than poop factor. Because of my naivete, I am just shocked by certain things that get brought up.

I have joined a few FB groups that discuss YT. There are a couple of very high-quality FB groups on Youtube that cater to my industry. They discuss good practices and there are some really good Youtubers there. It is great to read. But the "general" YT discussions, often have a high cringe factor.

People are talking about how their channels are getting shut down, copyright strikes, complaining about how they are losing views and subscribers, uploading the same video until it gets traction, taking TikTok videos and slapping them up into YT, people posting their subscriber numbers with no context or channel name, etc.

It got to be so much, I just hid the groups. But I am occasionally afflicted with "rubber-necker syndrome". I know I shouldn't look and read but I do it anyway! So who is the dummy? Of course, it is me.

Although I've not yet reached YPP status, I have a great appreciation for the journey. I know I haven't set any records in my progress but it feels good to "earn" your way there.

It seems so bizarre to me that explanations of getting "zombie subscribers" don't work will never sink in with some people.

 

[Super Cooper Hobbies]

The reason for this, I believe, is because of the requirements to qualify for the YouTube Partner Program. Since the average content creator is looking to monetize their videos to make money from YouTube their goal is to first qualify for the YPP. That can only work if they get 1000 subs. What they fail to realize is that subs don't equal views and thus while they might get the 1000 subs through sub4sub, they can't get these 1000 people to watch their content to get them the 4000 watch hours also required to qualify for the YPP. After all, sub4sub is about simply getting people to sub regardless if they watch your content. But if they don't watch the content then it's pointless to have the subs. Not only will they not be able to get the 4000 hours of watch time if their subs don't watch but even if they did manage to get those hours 1000 subs is not enough to get enough views needed to get paid by YouTube. It just won't work. It will be all for not.

They likely also don't realize that you have to apply for the partner program, you don't just get in once you meet the requirements. So even if they managed to meet the requirements with sub4sub, it still wouldn't work, because when who ever is on the other end reviews them for the program, they'll see that its a sub4sub channel, and they'll likely get denied.

 

[Stanley | Team TB]

YouTube has put out several statements about how they are de-prioritizing Subscriber counts. It's an antiquated metric. We all want it for vanity's sake but let's be real; views pay the bills. Making quality content should be the real goal.

 

[MattCommand1]

YouTube has put out several statements about how they are de-prioritizing Subscriber counts. It's an antiquated metric. We all want it for vanity's sake but let's be real; views pay the bills. Making quality content should be the real goal.

I remember when YT implemented the current incarnation of the YPP program a number of years back on another YT channel I had. I did make a little bit of money but then I didn't meet the new criteria and the money stopped.

Views are definitely very important. But subscribers will not go away because it is some measure of how many people are dedicated or interested enough to want to "follow" the channel. "Subscribe" is a secondary function to track viewer interest, not simply viewing it otherwise, people would almost exclusively engage in click-bait strategy to get the views. In some ways, having creators having to earn subscriber counts acts is a mitigating factor against "views at any and all costs".

I am curious as to how they will "de-emphasize" it. I guess they can hide the subscriber count which some creators do anyway. They can hide the subscriber count similar to the dislike/thumbs down button.

Do you have any ideas how they will "de-emphasize" subscriber accounts aside from hiding the number? Even if YT hides the subscriber number, there will be accounts that will simply post their subscriber numbers manually.

 

[Stanley | Team TB]

I don't know what they are going to do... but I assume they will make some tweaks to the algorithm so that larger channels don't get quite the lion's share of impressions. Mainly though I think they are simply going to make the sub count less prevalent (like what they did when they switched the sub counter from showing the full subscriber count to the abbreviated subscriber count). Subscriber counts are still an important metric for sponsorships, ad integrations etc. So they can't go away. But YouTube has said several times that they wish they'd never done subscriber counts in the first place and that they are moving in directions that are less focused on sub counts.

 

[MattCommand1]

Mainly though I think they are simply going to make the sub count less prevalent (like what they did when they switched the sub counter from showing the full subscriber count to the abbreviated subscriber count).

But YouTube has said several times that they wish they'd never done subscriber counts in the first place and that they are moving in directions that are less focused on sub counts.

I totally forgot about that when YT started rounding numbers. However, I'd read that it was related to helping creators' mental well-being so that they wouldn't freak out but the up and down fluctuations that inevitably happen.

Insofar as YT's regret, if not "subscribers" (aka "followers" on other platforms), then what would have been a good alternative? Everywhere I see whether it is FB, IG, Twitter, TT, LinkedIn, they all have variations of subscriber/followers/connections.

Oh, wait a minute as I wrote this, I thought of an example. LinkedIn does not display any numbers higher than 500. They show accounts as 500+. That would be interesting to see on YT. No subscribers higher than 1,000 or 10,000 subscribers would definitely send a shockwave to the YT ecosystem. LinkedIn might be an example to look at and study.

 

[Stanley | Team TB]

I totally forgot about that when YT started rounding numbers. However, I'd read that it was related to helping creators' mental well-being so that they wouldn't freak out but the up and down fluctuations that inevitably happen.

Insofar as YT's regret, if not "subscribers" (aka "followers" on other platforms), then what would have been a good alternative? Everywhere I see whether it is FB, IG, Twitter, TT, LinkedIn, they all have variations of subscriber/followers/connections.

Oh, wait a minute as I wrote this, I thought of an example. LinkedIn does not display any numbers higher than 500. They show accounts as 500+. That would be interesting to see on YT. No subscribers higher than 1,000 or 10,000 subscribers would definitely send a shockwave to the YT ecosystem. LinkedIn might be an example to look at and study.

ooooh... I like that option myself!

 

[Damon]

Yeah, that would be nice to have just 1k+ subs or 10k+subs and call it a day. The subscriber thing has gotten so bad that almost no one asks about how to make great content, how to make better thumbnails and such. Almost every single question on the forum is some version of "How do I get more subs?" It's as if they don't care about the people they're serving or the quality of content they're producing. All they want are subs. I don't even think they care if anyone actually watches the video. They just want subs.

I wish they would do away with subscriber counts altogether. YouTube was much easier when you didn't have all that. You just tried to make the best videos you could.

 

[Super Cooper Hobbies]

I'm stuck in the middle of that, I don't disagree that sub counts are over-rated and aren't as important. But there's nothing wrong with having them, I think subscriptions are an important part of the viewer experience, and the ability to subscribe. I could see the benefits of youtube hiding the subscribers from public view. So long as we could still see from the back end, I think that might not be a bad idea.

Maybe youtube should make it more clear on the back end that its not super important to have lots of subs. Like, the first thing you see when you open up the creator studio is your sub count, maybe thats demoralizing? It might be better if youtube put stuff like views and impressions at the top, and subscribers were further down?